Has Anybody Here Ever Created A Custom Garmin Compatible Map?

Has tutorials on creating Garmin compatible maps:

https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/

https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/tutorials/how-to-create-garmin-...

There was a user on the now-defunct GPS Review forum that created Garmin maps. He went by the user ID of Boyd and lived in New Jersey as I recall. I used to have his email address, but can no longer find it. Maybe some of the other old GPS Review forum members who are still members here at POI Factory would have Boyd's email address. I know who a couple of them are but will let them decide whether or not to respond rather than identify them in this message. In the meantime, I will continue searching to see if I can find Boyd's address and let you know if I find it.

revealing my identity from GPS Review: SergZak here, alive and present. I believe some already know me from there.

However, I don't have Boyd's email as I remember all correspondence with him (and the other high level members there) was though GPS Review's private message system...I remember we had our own little private section where we could converse about any manner of things, not just GPS related.

EDIT: Thinking about it, I did have his email as we were once working on some custom nuvi "dashboards" together. However, that email account as well as it's address book has gone the way of the Dodo.

I do remember his website's name: boydsmaps.com & it's still active (I just checked). Maybe he can be contacted through the website (I verified the website but nothing beyond that). I seem to remember him building a tutorial as it was quite a complicated process (at least at the time back then).

Always Happy to hear from fellow members of GPS Review. It was great, along with equally great members with a wealth of information that was sadly lost.

Hope you are doing well, Alan

Hey guys!... sorry for the late response, but this thread just came up in a random Google search and I figured it was time to check in.

Am I really so hard to find? I never went anywhere, gpsreview (and gpsPassion and laptopGPS) went away but I just keep doing my thing at boydsmaps.com. I made a few posts about it at gpsreview shortly before they shut down. The shutdown was a surprise for me, the other mod(s) and even Tim who was the site admin. Apparently, the company that bought the site just decided to pull the plug and didn't bother to tell anyone. Oh well, I guess nothing lasts forever.

Today, I'm the only moderator at gpsfiledepot.com - which consists almost entirely of deleting endless spam. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that 99% (maybe more) of the posts there are spam. Most of the remainder comes from one or two people promoting their versions of openstreetmap - which is a good thing - but doesn't interest me much. Nobody discusses making maps anymore. The site owner stops by every few years, but I don't even know how to contact him and PM's on the site go unanswered. "It is what it is".

I have also been a moderator at MacRumors.com for a number of years, but currently on a hiatus from that. Apple gets in the middle of some very contentious political issues and moderating those discussions was starting to get to me.

I'm also a mod/admin at NJPineBarrens. com which is a small, friendly site where people discuss topics of interest in the Pine Barrens of Southern New Jersey.

Regarding the topic of this thread, sorry, but I stopped making Garmin maps quite a few years ago. More recently, I completely gave up on Garmin. I spent so many thousands on their products over the years and most of them sit in a box in the closet now. I just lost interest in Garmin, their expensive products (that might well be described as "boutique" today, IMO) and most of all their proprietary software. I know that most of you are still on the "Garmin train", so I'll spare you any further negativity and just say that I moved on and have never been happier!

I spend all my time now working on my site (which is actually an installable web app) at boydsmaps.com. The site is exactly what the name says, it's "Boyd's Maps". There are about 3 terabytes of locally-hosted maps available now and it should grow to 4 terabytes this year. The site is fully compatible with all phones and computers, regardless of operating system. No Garmin maps, although it's compatible with your Garmin waypoints (or anything that uses .gpx files). Information about the site is here:

https://boydsmaps.com/info/

https://boydsmaps.com/help/#desktop

(You can also access these directly by clicking/pressing the help and info buttons in the main web app)

Right now, I'm working on a complete re-write of boydmaps and am actually creating my own unix-inspired operating system to build it on (pseudo-operating system might be more accurate). It all runs inside you browser, so the user doesn't really need to know anything about it. One of the big limits of websites is their inability to access the filesystem on your phone or computer. This is a good thing - you don't want random websites combing through your files. I currently use something called the web storage API which allows persistent data to be stored in the browser, but it's very limited - something like 5mb total.

My new operating system is based on indexedDB, another web technology that I don't think is very widely used because it's difficult to work with. So, I'm building my own unix-like filesystem on top of that. Also my own window manager and process manager - even a dedicated terminal app with a unix-like shell. The basics are all working but I'm just getting started. When all of this works to my satisfaction, I'll start building the new boydsmaps app with it.

The filesystem is all contained inside your browser and runs exclusively on your own device and not my server, making it completely private. It's hard to say how much data you can store in its filesystem, that depends on multiple things (how much disk space you have, how much storage other web apps are using, etc) but it should be in the neighborhood of one gigabyte.

That will be a real game-changer for me and will allow the user to have a whole library of their own waypoints for starters. I also plan to introduce support for garmin-compatible .gpx track files. Then, the big thing will be the ability to locally store portions of maps for offline use on a phone without cell service.

So, I'm very psyched about all of this but it's gonna take a long time - probably the end of the year before anything will be available to the public.

Phew, that's enough for now. Don't know how often I'll visit here but wanted to say "hi" to my old friends and give you an update. Hope you're all doing well!

Wow, it's been a while. Thanks for the update. Though I'm DorkusNimrod here, I believe I was SergZak at both GPSPassion & GPSReview...athough I'm not sure. I thought I'd at least reply briefly for now...

Great to hear from you after all this time!

Hey! Well, there was a SergZak at GPSReview and he claimed to be DorkusNimrod on this site, so I think that's you! Great to hear from you again! I do miss the old days, when everyone was so excited about the newest Garmin Nuvi (or whatever). Sadly, those days are long gone, but there are so many good memories...

It's been a long time since this thread was created - sorry I didn't notice it earlier. But just in case somebody still wants to make Garmin-format maps and doesn't know where to start, let me set the stage with some history. It gets very involved, but you need to understand the basics before we can get into the details.... so, here we go!

We'll start with a little history of computer graphics. Before computers went mainstream there was a device called an oscilliscope which had a small cathode ray tube and inputs for X and Y voltages. It projected an electron beam to create a single dot at the middle of the screen but when you applied a positive voltage to the X input, the dot moved to the right and negative moved it left. Same with the Y input, moving the dot up and down. So, using combinations of X and Y inputs, you could move that dot anywhere on the screen using analog technology. The screen had a high-persistence phosphor coating, meaning it would glow for awhile, so if you quickly moved the dot between two locations, it would create a line between the two points (until it faded out).

Early computer graphics displays used this technology; the computer had a "display file" which was just a list of (x,y) coordinates. The display processor would then constantly cycle through the list and the result was simple line graphics. It had to do this very fast to prevent flickering, which limited the number of objects you could render on the screen. It could create points (dots) anywhere on the screen or lines, which were pairs of connected points (start and stop). This was further extended to "polylines" where a whole list of points could be connected with lines. This is very similar to the capabilities of .gpx files today, with waypoints and tracks but no polygons (which are solid objects). Now, if we draw a polyline such that the first and last point are the same, that will represent a the outline of a polygon without the solid filling. This whole system could be called "vector graphics".

Now, consider an old TV set. It used analog technology to create something called a "raster" where the electron beam constantly scanned horizontal lines on the screen, moving down to the next line as it finished. It took awhile for computers to get fast enough, but eventually they could address individual points on each line of the raster, creating any kind of image without the limitations of vector graphics. These are "raster graphics" and the individual dots are "pixels". It also uses a display buffer, but now we need to store the state of each pixel (on or off). So, for a simple monochrome 640x480 image, we need 307,200 bits - a heavy lift for early computers. But this is where all computer graphics ended up and is still the basic system used for all digital imagery.

Now, we could still use vector graphics, but this was all done in software by calculating which pixels need to be turned on the create a line between two points. The big advantage was that we could now have polygons filled with solid colors. This was further extended by allowing repeating patterns to be used as a fill instead of solid colors. Those patterns could also be used when displaying points - like a waypoint symbol, for example.

Enter Garmin. They created a map format using vector graphics where there were just three types of objects: points, polylines and polygons. Mostly, this is what people think of when talking about "Garmin Maps". Their format was proprietary (and still is) and they never explained it, but some clever people reverse-engineered it and created software that we could use to make our own Garmin maps. The primary tool for this was created by Stan Kozicki and called cgpsmapper. He created an intermediate format which he called "mp files" or "Polish Format" files. They were then compiled into Garmin-compatible .img files that could be installed on a GPS unit or used in Garmin Mapsource on a computer. The details are more complicated, but that's basically how it worked - and it still does.

The full software package was quite expensive, but also included a tool to copy-protect a map (like Garmin does) such that you needed a key to use it on a GPS. But Stan also had a shareware version (with no locking and some other limitations) that anyone could use. Eventually, Stan got tired of Garmin's antics of changing things and ceased development of his software, making the shareware version free. This became very popular and was used for most of the maps at GPSFileDepot, along with a couple other freeware/shareware tools to extend the capabilities. This is how I made maps for many years myself.

Meanwhile, other companies - TomTom, Magellan and Lowrance mainly - developed their own proprietary vector map formats. There never were any widely accepted user tools to make your own maps in their formats (AFAIK). However, Magellan introduced the idea of using raster-based maps on their handheld devices which opened the door to using aerial photography and scanned paper maps on a GPS. Then there was OziExplorer and their mobile app "OziExplorer CE" which ran on devices based on Windows CE (where CE stood for "Consumer Electronics"). I made a lot of these maps myself and used them on a variety of Windows CE devices from HP, Magellan and others. People used to call these "moving maps" since they could only show your position on a map and not calculate routes (which requires a vector representation of lines). Nevertheless, this was a big leap ahead of Garmin.

Eventually, Garmin created something called "Custom Maps" which were raster images that users could create themselves and install on their premium outdoor devices - the Colorado was the first, followed by the Oregon series. They used Google's .kmz file format and had some serious limitations in both map size and performance (they are really slow to render on screen). But I fully embraced this and was the first person to post free maps at GPSFileDepot in this format.

Now, confusion has reigned ever since. When GPSFileDepot began, they used the term "Custom Maps" to describe any map that you made yourself. These were all vector-based maps. But then Garmin re-defined "Custom Maps" as a name for raster-based imagery. So, even today, when someone talks about "Custom Maps" for Garmin devices, they might be talking about two completely different things!

To wrap up this little history lesson, if you want to make Garmin maps you first must decide whether you want Vector or Raster based maps. For the most part, Garmin's automotive devices are only compatible with vector maps (a few specialized units can use raster imagery). Almost all Garmin handheld units can use both raster and vector maps. Let's quickly consider each.

Vector maps can cover very large areas - like whole states or countries because they are very efficient in terms of storage. You're just storing a list of points and the GPS "connects the dots" to create the map. Raster imagery needs a lot of storage - each pixel of the image uses memory. They also need a more powerful CPU/GPU to process the imagery in realtime.

But Garmin intentionally crippled their raster-based "Custom Maps". The biggest map you could make consisted of 100 image "tiles", 1024x1024 pixels each. With raster imagery, each pixel corresponds to a square in the real world. The size of that square is the map's resolution. For example, if the resolution of the map is one meter, each pixel represents 1 meter x 1 meter. Rounding this off for simplicity, each map tile would cover 1km x 1km. The 100 tile limit means a whole map could only cover 10 x 10 kilometers. Now, the coverage would change if you used other resolutions. For example if you want really high resolution imagery where each pixel represents one foot, each tile would be about 1,000 feet x 1,000 feet and 100 tiles would only cover an area about 2 miles x 2 miles (the actual number would be 10,240 x 10,240 feet). This really limits the usefulness of these maps to small areas - like a short hike, for example.

Garmin made a few premium handhelds that allowed 500 map tiles (instead of 100) but there were very few of these and the coverage area is still quite small. It's solely a marketing issue - Garmin doesn't want you to make maps that compete with their own products. The hardware is completely capable of it, as witnessed by Garmin proprietary "Birdseye" map format which has a limit (IIRC) of 50,000 tiles.

Eventually, somebody cracked the Birdseye format so we could make our own large raster maps but there was a big caveat. Birdseye is copy protected and must be installed with Garmin Basecamp. It "phones home" to Garmin and checks to see if the map is authorized. If not, it will work in Basecamp but not on the GPS. There were two ways around this. The first involved hacking Garmin's firmware and installing a patched version that disabled the authorization process. This was risky and required a new patch each time Garmin updated their firmware - there was a real risk of "bricking" your GPS if you messed with this. The easier fix was to actually purchase a Birsdeye subscription, then you could fool Basecamp into thinking your own map actually came from Garmin and it would work on the GPS.

But this doesn't work anymore, because Garmin discontinued the old Birdseye format and now uses something new and different. To make it worse, the person who did all the reverse-engineering of Birdseye died a few years ago. So, AFAIK, you are still bound by Garmin's original limits of their "Custom Maps" format.

Sorry, this has gotten even longer than I expected, LOL. Bottom line is that, unless you just want small maps for specific locations, home-made raster imagery on a Garmin GPS is not useful. Meanwhile, other very efficient, powerful and universally-accepted open source solutions exist for raster imagery of (almost) unlimited size. And they work very well on handheld devices, rendering MUCH faster than Garmin Birdseye. But Garmin doesn't support these. Why? Because (IMO) a big part of their business model is selling maps.

If you want vector based maps, you can still use cgpsmapper, even though it isn't supported any more. There are detailed tutorials for this over at gpsfiledepot. If you want something more up to date, OpenStreetMap has developed their own Garmin tools. I never really used those myself, but suspect that's where most of the current development has moved.

Phew, I'll just leave it here for now. This is an old thread and I'm not sure if anyone here actually wants to make Garmin maps now. But if you do, tell us exactly what you hope to accomplish and whether you need Vector or Raster based maps. I can then get into some of the details involved with creating them.

Talk about an education. That is totally fascinating! As they say, a day without learning something is a day lost (paraphrased). And today is NOT a lost day.

Nice to see your name pop up in the forum. Thanks for the detailed posts! I suspect it may earn you the COW award (Contributor of the week)

Edit: Incidentally, thanks for explaining what happened to the GPS Review forum. It was a shock when it disappeared without notice and seemed out of character for something Tim would do without notifying us regulars via the private messaging system. Now it makes sense.

Hey Alan!

Actually, I feel like I never knew what happened to GPSReview myself! I sent Tim an e-mail the day it went down and it was news to him. He said he'd try to find out what happened and get back to me, but never did. I remember corresponding with another mod who was just as clueless as everyone else.

Tim had sold the site to some big dot com company years earlier - part of some shopping network... Word was that he did very well for himself in that deal, but I really don't know.

Then it changed hands at least one more time after that. I don't know if Tim hung around out of loyalty or if he was obligated by some agreement, but he was around less and less towards the end.

Anyway, I guess we'll never know the whole story. I assumed the company just didn't think it was worth maintaining, the ad revenue probably dropped to nothing. In the old days, when I started as as moderator, I got a yearly payment based on a fraction of the site's advertising income. It was never going to make anyone rich, but was enough to get a new Nuvi (or whatever), LOL.

That only lasted a couple years for me, then tapered off to like $50/year, then maybe $15/year... then nothing. Haha.... Those were the days!

I remember Tim sending me a nuvi 200 (or 200W) at one point. Don't remember exactly why nor the circumstances but it was pretty cool nonetheless. I remember him being a pilot (of what class, I have no clue). That place was pretty damn cool and I thoroughly enjoyed being a part of it and visiting often to see what was new and great. Some great "experts" there to converse and interact with.

I was sad to see it go. There was a ton of info and some great people there.

GPSPassion was good as well but we had GPSPassion himself (Guillaume) to deal with...always present with ruler in-hand, ready to smack the back of our hands for some odd posting infraction. At least Rick and Dan (the Garmin/nuvi moderators) were down to earth and friendly.

I really enjoyed Rick's (NanaimoRick) road trip write-ups (Vancouver to Palm Springs(?)) & reviews of the latest nuvi models. He (t923347) used to frequent here at POI Factory as well.

I had to look it up because I couldn't remember when GPSReview shut down. It was only about 5 years ago, seems like a lot longer. I don't think this reveals anything too personal (details have been redacted), so here's a transcript of the the final moments. And then... darkness.
______________________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:18:38 -0400
To: Tim

Tim,

FYI, this is what I am getting when I go to the site

-Boyd

Invalid URL

The requested URL "[no URL]", is invalid.
Reference #9.aca82617.1631549610.4bc753ba

----

Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 13:07:34 -0400
From: Tim

I see -- looking into it.

----

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:47:05 -0400
To: Tim

Tim,

So...is it just gone now? I suppose that is inevitable, but it would be nice to make a more graceful exit. Oh well...

Hope you are well,

-Boyd

----

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 17:58:44 -0400
From: Tim

I don't know at this time, but I expect to have more info soon.

- Tim
______________________________________________________________

Here's the last working snapshot of the site from archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20210506232549/http://forums.gps...

Interesting how that all came about. It sure was a great forum in the heyday of standalone GPS devices. I learned a heck of a lot of useful and interesting things in that forum from members like Boyd and Sergzak!

Regarding new and exciting, I was quite excited when the new eTrex Touch (Gen 2) was released in Sept of last year (along with it's big brothers the H1 & H1i Plus) but Garmin has created these devices with so many issues that what excitement was there has deflated into a waiting game...waiting for them to fix the numerous issues with them.

eTrex Touch changelog:
https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=PUVcPRrz6H1fIedlF7iOB6

GPSMAP H1 series changelog:
https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=3bVNyv376q8VduXIW3T9O8

You can read my views of the new eTrex Touch in my other posts in this forum. I won't rehash my criticisms here as I've already made my points in the other topics.

Hopefully, Rick (NanaimoRick) will pop in here as well at some point.

I saw this thread when the Touch was announced and noticed that you were a participant in it.

https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/427691-new...

Robertlipe is someone who I have a lot of respect for, he really knows the GPS industry (he's the author of GPSBabel and even wrote some of the original code for Garmin Basecamp). Just had to laugh at his first impressions...
___________

"If this thing actually reads in sunlight without squinting or battling reflections, I’ll be shocked."​
​
"Maps? $99/year for routing. That's a ransom note masquerading as an update."​
​
"Dumb from a GPS company that bought a map company yet relies on free OpenStreetMaps anyway. My dog could navigate better on a leash."​
​
"Maybe Garmin’s “bridge device” before the handheld market collapses. I’d call it a bridge device, except the bridge is falling apart."​
​
"It’s Garmin. Planned obsolescence: their longest-running product line."​
___________

OK, he also said something nice.

"But hey — at least they didn’t glue a camera in this one."​
____________

My newest Garmin device is a DriveTrack 71 that I got in 2019. I was really happy with this for awhile as it had the ability to use my own raster imagery ("custom maps"). It also included a Birdseye subscription, and (as I mentioned earlier in the thread) I was able to substitute my own imagery for Garmin's. I wrote about it here:

https://forums.gpsfiledepot.com/index.php/topic,4615.msg2504...

But ultimately, Garmin discontinued Birdseye on these devices so there was no way to renew the subscription and no way to add any more of my own imagery (although the files I had already added to the GPS continued to work).

Now... I'm just done with Garmin. Sure, if I were some rich guy I might grab a couple of their top of the line units, like the Tread (prices start at $700 and go all the way up to $2500 for this model!) The Montana 700 series looks cool, but it's ridiculously large and heavy. But I'm not a rich guy and the price on these things just isn't reasonable IMO.

OTOH, I could buy a new base model Tread and Montana *every year* and it wouldn't even cost half as much as I spend annually to lease the boydsmaps server!